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    "Christian" beliefs

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    metcalfj
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    "Christian" beliefs

    Post  metcalfj on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:17 pm

    This is a topic which used to fascinate me as a teenage. In the past decade I have avoided discussion because I came to the conclusion that it was fairly pointless. There can be no sound argument formed to determine if there is or is not a 'God', nor can there be one formed to decide which version of scripture and belief is correct if it eventuates that there is one.

    There are many forms of scripture used and different belief structures formed by loosely 'christian' groups (in this I include Protestants, Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and any offshoots from these groups).

    Protestants - Try your best to live by the commandments of Jesus, and your immortal soul will live in peace in heaven for ever, if not, then the lake of fire awaits.

    Catholics - Do pretty much what ever you want as long as you don't use contraception, just confess your sins every sunday yadda yadda yadda.

    Mormons - here it gets interesting. When Christ was 'dead' for 2 or 3 days (depending on how good your maths is), he did not go to hell to teach the sinners and offer them salvation, he actually went to America and taught the people there. They made a perfect record of his teachings on gold tablets. These tablets were later found (along with a heavenly translation device) which lead to the writing of the Book of Mormon. Because this is a perfect record, perfectly translated, this is of course the true teaching of Christ. The imperfect bible is also used as a secondary tool, where any inconsistencies between the two books arise, the book of Mormon is deemed to be correct. There is no hell, just different levels of Heaven (7 from memory). If you lead a good life, have lots of kids and don't drink coffee you will be on a higher level of heaven after death. But no one (apart from Jesus) can ever get to the same level of heaven as God.

    Jehovah's Witnesses - again, things are interesting here. We do not have immortal souls (and to teach or believe that we do is a sin in itself). But our mortal bodies will literally be resurected on judgement day. After that point, we will live on a perfect earth with pretty butterflies for ever more (but don't forget that we do not have immortal souls, or you won't)

    Add to these sets of beliefs the wild off shoots (e.g. southern baptists who believe that the bible tells them to kill all black people) and the fact that the base scripture is shared with both Jewish and Muslim scripture and the hopelessness of the situation becomes even more apparent.

    I guess the point of this thread is to gather people's points of view around the wild inconsistencies in the scriptures used and beliefs held by a large portion of the world's population. How is something so irrational so important to us? Please add your own point of view and try to avoid killing others whose views differ from yours.....
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    master5o1
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  master5o1 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:45 pm

    If you believe in [a] God and he exists, then you get rewarded.
    If you don't believe in [a] God and he exists, then you get damned.
    If you believe in [a] God, or you don't believe in [a] God and he does not exist, then it didn't matter.


    Basically: It's good to believe in a God simply because it doesn't matter whether he does exist or not, nothing 'bad' should happen to you [re: judgement day].
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    master5o1
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  master5o1 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:47 pm

    Mind you, I'm an Atheist purely because It's illogical to believe in a God and Religions have been corrupted by man.
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    metcalfj
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  metcalfj on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:50 pm

    A good old Pascal's Wager argument. The usual rebuttal to such an argument is that if there is a God, it may be a perverse master. It may punish you for believing in it, or for believing in the wrong form of it (i.e. Christian vs Muslim version) Where as true non-believers may be granted another chance at redemption.
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    Tikva
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  Tikva on Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:56 pm

    Personally, I don't have a problem with most Christian religions, until they attempt to impose their beliefs onto others ~ which many do.

    I was raised Mormon, although never really was committed to it, but my Parents also allowed me to attend Every Girls Rally, which was run by the Open Brethren, and it was partly there that I was taught about being born again, accepting Jesus into your heart, etc. As well as that, during the Christmas School holidays, many of the Camping Grounds we would stay at had the Open Air Campaigners, which also taught basic Christian beliefs.

    After the death of my son when I was 16, I was completely put off Mormonism when I was told by a woman that I had grown up calling 'Aunty' that unless I was a good Mormon, my son would be given to someone else to raise in heaven. For quite a number of years after that, I was a bit pissed at God, and wanted nothing whatsoever to do with anything to do with Christianity. But, eventually I got involved with the Pentecostal movement, and was into that for about 12 years.

    Sorry for the long background, but just felt it might be relevant to my opinion on it all now!

    I came out of the Pentecostal movement and in the following year or two, I realised just how brainwashed I had been whilst being involved. Even now, there are still a few ingrained beliefs hanging on, but I'm getting rid of them one by one, primarily by education. I've recently looked into the the Epistle of Judas, the Gospel of Mary Magdelene, and as you no doubt already know, Judaism.

    And for me, that's what it's really all about. Looking into different religions, faiths, etc., and finding the beliefs that give you one of those "Yes!" moments. It's hard to explain, but it just makes sense to you, and you personally. I believe that God is a personal God, and the my path to him is just that - MY path. Not yours, nor anyone elses. Another way I look at it is that we all prefer different flavours of Icecream - some like Vanilla, some Hokey Pokey, some Chocolate, etc. When it comes to Christian religions, people prefer different 'flavours' ~ each to their own, basically.

    Just don't try and force it down my throat Smile
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    master5o1
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  master5o1 on Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:10 pm

    NO NO NO NO NO


    I preferred your old username [sblahblahblahmonkeys]
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    Tikva
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  Tikva on Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:14 pm

    How bout this one?
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    Waireka
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  Waireka on Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:40 am


    Mormons - here it gets interesting. When Christ was 'dead' for 2 or 3 days (depending on how good your maths is), he did not go to hell to teach the sinners and offer them salvation, he actually went to America and taught the people there. They made a perfect record of his teachings on gold tablets. These tablets were later found (along with a heavenly translation device) which lead to the writing of the Book of Mormon. Because this is a perfect record, perfectly translated, this is of course the true teaching of Christ. The imperfect bible is also used as a secondary tool, where any inconsistencies between the two books arise, the book of Mormon is deemed to be correct. There is no hell, just different levels of Heaven (7 from memory). If you lead a good life, have lots of kids and don't drink coffee you will be on a higher level of heaven after death. But no one (apart from Jesus) can ever get to the same level of heaven as God.

    3 Degrees of Glory and the highest degree is to be with God and Jesus.

    http://lds.about.com/library/weekly/aaplanofsalvation.htm

    There is ultimately not Hell, they believe that only the best spirits were sent to earth to develop and make choices for themselves, therefore they earnt the right to immortality before they even came to earth. The trials they faced on earth and the choices they made will qualify them for different degrees of paradise (glory), even the lowest degree is paradise beyond our comprehension.



    The one that stumps me is the JW belief that only 'x' ammount of people can get into heaven, yet they go around fulling their church up with more competition?
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    Waireka
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  Waireka on Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:42 am


    I guess the point of this thread is to gather people's points of view around the wild inconsistencies in the scriptures used and beliefs held by a large portion of the world's population. How is something so irrational so important to us? Please add your own point of view and try to avoid killing others whose views differ from yours.....


    They all preach a similar message (usually), they all give comfort to those who have experienced loss and or are afraid of the unknowing death and they provide sense of purpose.
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    master5o1
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  master5o1 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:32 am

    Hey guys, what's going on in here. I heard you talking about me.




    [this post will be lame when I change my username ... back]
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    brendanj
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  brendanj on Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:35 am

    If you believe in [a] God and he exists, then you get rewarded.

    what happens if you believed in the wrong God?
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    relict
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    No

    Post  relict on Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:47 am

    master5o1 wrote:NO NO NO NO NO


    I preferred your old username [sblahblahblahmonkeys]

    NO
    I preferred your first avatar.
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    Waireka
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  Waireka on Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:50 am

    brendanj wrote:If you believe in [a] God and he exists, then you get rewarded.

    what happens if you believed in the wrong God?

    Some religions believe that only those of their faith make it to heaven.

    I only know about Catholicism and Mormonism with my family ties. Catholics believe only those baptized in the Catholic church can return to God (I think) and Mormons believe that everyone of us is rewarded with immortality and paradise, but those of the Mormon faith reside closest to God, they also believe there is a chance to convert in the afterlife while awaiting judgement.
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    canterella
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  canterella on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:14 am

    I was born and raised in a Catholicism-crazy country so no wonder I am an atheist.
    Believe in whatever you want just don't try to convert me, thank you very much. I'm not trying to convince you there's no god.
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    Waireka
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    Re: "Christian" beliefs

    Post  Waireka on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:16 am

    canterella wrote:I was born and raised in a Catholicism-crazy country so no wonder I am an atheist.
    Believe in whatever you want just don't try to convert me, thank you very much. I'm not trying to convince you there's no god.

    Well said.

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